Comments on: Following the script http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/ Email, Delivery, Spam and more Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:06:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Jon http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1973 Jon Tue, 14 Jul 2009 06:00:49 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1973 J.D. Thanks for your follow-up. Yes, I'm filling out the postmaster forms. I'm pretty hip to the idea that I've got to work through this myself though. It's not in the ISP's best interest to telegraph how to avoid their throttling. Following publicly available guidelines would make not just my job, but the evil spammers jobs easier. Persistence and patience are going to get me through this, but it sure messes with my engineering frame of mind. I just want facts 'n figures please. I found over the weekend that Y! has relented on the IP they've been despising. That makes the mailman very happy. I figure I mostly just need some more 'warm up' time to establish a reputation. Everything seems to be tracking well overall. Did I mention I'm learning patience? (grin) I did receive a valuable hint on connections/msgs per connection from Laura Atkins (Thank you!). That's something I specifically asked for from Yahoo! but never heard back. Otherwise I was flying blind and my vendors suggested settings may have been too high. Maybe this little tweak will keep them from snubbing me as often. Best J.D. Thanks for your follow-up. Yes, I’m filling out the postmaster forms. I’m pretty hip to the idea that I’ve got to work through this myself though. It’s not in the ISP’s best interest to telegraph how to avoid their throttling. Following publicly available guidelines would make not just my job, but the evil spammers jobs easier. Persistence and patience are going to get me through this, but it sure messes with my engineering frame of mind. I just want facts ‘n figures please.

I found over the weekend that Y! has relented on the IP they’ve been despising. That makes the mailman very happy. I figure I mostly just need some more ‘warm up’ time to establish a reputation. Everything seems to be tracking well overall. Did I mention I’m learning patience? (grin)

I did receive a valuable hint on connections/msgs per connection from Laura Atkins (Thank you!). That’s something I specifically asked for from Yahoo! but never heard back. Otherwise I was flying blind and my vendors suggested settings may have been too high. Maybe this little tweak will keep them from snubbing me as often.

Best

]]> By: J.D. http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1972 J.D. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:58:29 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1972 Are you filling out the postmaster forms, or the end user forms? That's where most people get stuck with Yahoo! and the other biggies. Are you filling out the postmaster forms, or the end user forms? That’s where most people get stuck with Yahoo! and the other biggies.

]]> By: Jon http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1970 Jon Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:13:08 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1970 It's funny, I found this thread by searching for alternate means to contact Yahoo FBL. This is because I desperately need to communicate with them and their 'normal channel' has been literaly as effective as a shout down a wishing well. I'm an engineer sending mail from a very popular social networking site (>65M users) dedicated to political activism and charitable donations. We're not selling V1akra, that's for certain. I've built a mail sending system to enhance our communications with our users. Currently 90% of our outbound mails are opt-in confirmations, the remainder are notifications sent to previously verified/confirmed addresses. I've signed up for all the various FBL's with the major providers and we're tracking reputation nicely as we warm up the sending IP's with about 75K mails a day over the last month. Yahoo! of course is 35%+ of that mail. However they're blocking the heck out of my mails from time to time. For the last few days one of my sending IP's is almost completely blocked while the other three are not. This causes horrible delays. I think that the longer expected mail is delayed the more likelihood it has of being marked as spam or ignored. I've repeatedly filled out their forms requesting assistance. I get an automated response about half the time. A ticket is opened a form reply is sent, a customer satisfaction survey is sent. Repeat. Never a response revealing anyone has read my request for assistance, never any feedback at all, so to speak. :( It's very frustrating. I'm a legitimate sender, sending legitimate mail. I use SPF, DKIM, Domainkeys and participate in feedback loops wherever possible (including Yahoo!). I send consistently from a small set of IP's. Yahoo! simply will not respond to me. :( So, what can a person do when the 'normal channels' are completely and thoroughly unhelpful? Thanks for reading this far... Hoping for a miracle. It’s funny, I found this thread by searching for alternate means to contact Yahoo FBL. This is because I desperately need to communicate with them and their ‘normal channel’ has been literaly as effective as a shout down a wishing well.

I’m an engineer sending mail from a very popular social networking site (>65M users) dedicated to political activism and charitable donations. We’re not selling V1akra, that’s for certain.

I’ve built a mail sending system to enhance our communications with our users. Currently 90% of our outbound mails are opt-in confirmations, the remainder are notifications sent to previously verified/confirmed addresses.

I’ve signed up for all the various FBL’s with the major providers and we’re tracking reputation nicely as we warm up the sending IP’s with about 75K mails a day over the last month. Yahoo! of course is 35%+ of that mail. However they’re blocking the heck out of my mails from time to time. For the last few days one of my sending IP’s is almost completely blocked while the other three are not. This causes horrible delays. I think that the longer expected mail is delayed the more likelihood it has of being marked as spam or ignored.

I’ve repeatedly filled out their forms requesting assistance. I get an automated response about half the time. A ticket is opened a form reply is sent, a customer satisfaction survey is sent. Repeat. Never a response revealing anyone has read my request for assistance, never any feedback at all, so to speak. :(

It’s very frustrating. I’m a legitimate sender, sending legitimate mail. I use SPF, DKIM, Domainkeys and participate in feedback loops wherever possible (including Yahoo!). I send consistently from a small set of IP’s. Yahoo! simply will not respond to me. :(

So, what can a person do when the ‘normal channels’ are completely and thoroughly unhelpful?

Thanks for reading this far… Hoping for a miracle.

]]> By: Personal Contacts at ISPs: Part 2 at Word to the Wise http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1968 Personal Contacts at ISPs: Part 2 at Word to the Wise Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:49:14 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1968 [...] talked quite a bit recently about working with ISPs and personal contacts. Today I have an example of what not to [...] [...] talked quite a bit recently about working with ISPs and personal contacts. Today I have an example of what not to [...]

]]> By: J.D. http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1969 J.D. Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:13:19 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1969 DJ: not always. Sometimes, particularly with really big companies who provide a myriad of products to millions of end users, it can be difficult to find the correct channel for questions that aren't the usual end user stuff. Those channels are often shoehorned into end user support systems, and front-line folks may not be fully trained on how to recognize that it's not an end user asking. That's why I've always recommended keeping the initial message simple -- too much information just confuses 'em -- and staying patient. I've certainly learned some things about setting up support channels for senders, though. The first is that whenever someone claims to be having a "marketing emergency" or rants that they're "losing millions of dollars an hour," or marks their message "urgent," that request goes on the bottom of the pile. The second is that I shouldn't be doing support for senders of marketing mail -- so y'all should be glad I'm not. *grin* Instead, I'm trying to make sure (as are we all, finally) that every product I work on can be supported by a dedicated team who has not yet lost all patience with people who make silly claims like those. For example, there's paragraph six here: http://www.returnpath.net/blog/2009/01/yahoo-deja-vu.php DJ: not always. Sometimes, particularly with really big companies who provide a myriad of products to millions of end users, it can be difficult to find the correct channel for questions that aren’t the usual end user stuff. Those channels are often shoehorned into end user support systems, and front-line folks may not be fully trained on how to recognize that it’s not an end user asking. That’s why I’ve always recommended keeping the initial message simple — too much information just confuses ‘em — and staying patient.

I’ve certainly learned some things about setting up support channels for senders, though. The first is that whenever someone claims to be having a “marketing emergency” or rants that they’re “losing millions of dollars an hour,” or marks their message “urgent,” that request goes on the bottom of the pile. The second is that I shouldn’t be doing support for senders of marketing mail — so y’all should be glad I’m not. *grin*

Instead, I’m trying to make sure (as are we all, finally) that every product I work on can be supported by a dedicated team who has not yet lost all patience with people who make silly claims like those. For example, there’s paragraph six here: http://www.returnpath.net/blog/2009/01/yahoo-deja-vu.php

]]> By: DJ Waldow http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1964 DJ Waldow Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:33:08 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1964 @JD - I was not trying to imply that I (or anyone) should "blatantly ignore the correct channel." My example above was a bit of my real-time frustration with trying to go through the appropriate channel with Shaw.ca. I sent several emails and didn't hear back for weeks (until today!). Your years of experience, history of work an ISP, and current gig at a deliverability firm, has helped you learn what those proper channels are, right? Looking forward to meeting in person at MAAWG. dj @djwaldow – DJ Waldow Director of Best Practices & Deliverability Bronto Software, Inc djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk… @JD – I was not trying to imply that I (or anyone) should “blatantly ignore the correct channel.” My example above was a bit of my real-time frustration with trying to go through the appropriate channel with Shaw.ca. I sent several emails and didn’t hear back for weeks (until today!).

Your years of experience, history of work an ISP, and current gig at a deliverability firm, has helped you learn what those proper channels are, right?

Looking forward to meeting in person at MAAWG.

dj
@djwaldow

–
DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…

]]> By: J.D. http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1965 J.D. Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:03:19 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1965 From the inside, when somebody ignored the correct channel -- particularly when I was certain they <i>knew</i> the correct channel -- it felt like they didn't think my time was valuable. It felt like they didn't care that I might have other work to do, other priorities. Surely, that's not the impression anyone wants to give when they're asking for a favor. From the inside, when somebody ignored the correct channel — particularly when I was certain they knew the correct channel — it felt like they didn’t think my time was valuable. It felt like they didn’t care that I might have other work to do, other priorities.

Surely, that’s not the impression anyone wants to give when they’re asking for a favor.

]]> By: DJ Waldow http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1971 DJ Waldow Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:28:53 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1971 Laura - As Seth said, great reminder. For those that have great processes/channels in place, I've found incredible success. However, sometimes I've found my answer on Twitter (i.e., @godaddyguy). Also, there have been times where I've gone through the script (i.e., shaw.ca) and have never heard back. What then? dj @djwaldow -- DJ Waldow Director of Best Practices & Deliverability Bronto Software, Inc djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk... Laura -

As Seth said, great reminder. For those that have great processes/channels in place, I’ve found incredible success. However, sometimes I’ve found my answer on Twitter (i.e., @godaddyguy). Also, there have been times where I’ve gone through the script (i.e., shaw.ca) and have never heard back. What then?

dj
@djwaldow

–
DJ Waldow
Director of Best Practices & Deliverability
Bronto Software, Inc
djwaldow: twitter, AIM, MSN, Gtalk…

]]> By: Seth Weisfeld http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1967 Seth Weisfeld Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:01:39 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1967 Good reminder Laura! It's easy to forget the affect on our friends in the industry when you escalate straight to them. Great anecdotes as well. Thanks! Good reminder Laura! It’s easy to forget the affect on our friends in the industry when you escalate straight to them. Great anecdotes as well. Thanks!

]]> By: Eaglehawk http://blog.wordtothewise.com/2009/01/following-the-script/comment-page-1/#comment-1966 Eaglehawk Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:34:37 +0000 http://blog.wordtothewise.com/?p=337#comment-1966 Very good post. I completely agree, and try in most cases to follow the normal path, until at such point where normal path no longer works. However if I find that the normal path never works, I give up on it and if I know someone there I'll reach out to them. Here is an experience for you. I recently started seeing spam from a customer on a provider that I know someone in the abuse role. I first contacted their abuse@ to get it stopped. I waited for a response received none. I then received another spam from the same IP. I reached out to my contact there, and he said he'd get it taken care of. I then received another copy of it, so I asked the contact again, he said he would take care of it. Guess what I got another copy of it. This is one provider I'm not even going to try to get stuff handled from again, and will just start null routing them. Very good post. I completely agree, and try in most cases to follow the normal path, until at such point where normal path no longer works. However if I find that the normal path never works, I give up on it and if I know someone there I’ll reach out to them.

Here is an experience for you. I recently started seeing spam from a customer on a provider that I know someone in the abuse role. I first contacted their abuse@ to get it stopped. I waited for a response received none. I then received another spam from the same IP. I reached out to my contact there, and he said he’d get it taken care of. I then received another copy of it, so I asked the contact again, he said he would take care of it. Guess what I got another copy of it. This is one provider I’m not even going to try to get stuff handled from again, and will just start null routing them.

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